Take this as an encouragement...because I am encouraging you to check my words in the last post. Make sure they are not only typed correctly, but I strongly "encourage" you to look at the context as well. I'm encouraging this because I want you to see for yourself what I am seeing. I hope no one expects me to post the whole book of Romans. -Ain't happen'n, sorry. =]
The description here is pretty ...well, descriptive. Don't you think? And the progression is hardly unnoticeable. It seems to go from a flick on the wrist to tearing out living organs. I think its funny (not necessarily haha) that in verse 30 he mentions disobeying your parents along with acts of evil.
(OK...I'm still stalling about talking about me. But you aren't reading this for an exegetical study or commentary so I'll move on.)
This whole page is convicting (another word for scary as hell) to me even now. I guess by the end of my rampage through the library's resources, I finally landed upon researching the words of verse 28. Being given over to a "depraved mind" did not sound like a good thing, and of course, I was curious about what exactly that meant. (Because it scared the Sh*# out of me - Pardon my asterisk)
I had concluded that it was just as I thought. Homosexuality was not what God wanted for men or women to do with their bodies, but...
I still asked the questions of how did it get this way?
How did we go from kiddos and learning about God to... fornicating in a way that did not honor Him? Two obvious extremes while the middle story leaves room for questions and doubt.
I thought of my friend Aaron.
Aaron(19 y.o.) and I were on the management team of a McD's in IL. (I worked there over summer and breaks from school.) Over a retreat that sent us to Chicago we got to talking about "stuff". I remember it well....Me holding my fat 10 dollar cigar and him sipping his wine cooler (fuzzy navel, I believe) at our super high class Chicago hotel. He must have been a light weight or something because he began confessing his life to me as if I were his own personal priest.
Aaron told me was from a very conservative Christian family who went to church every time the doors were open. And he had tried magazines and porn movies and anything he could think of....Still the only thing that got him aroused was another man.
We stayed up all night talking while the rest of our group slumped over the sofas and floors inside the suite. We decided to go out for some fresh air and took the city bus to the beach just in time for the sun to rise over Lake MI. It was both beautiful and stinky. (from seagulls and vomit...Apparently, we were not the only ones that stayed up all night partying.) All together, a very memorable night.
We stayed in touch after that and occasionally I would need to give him a lift home. The ride would give us time to talk about those things we couldn't mention at work. Aaron kept repeating just how tired he was of hiding and trying to change. He said that he would go talk to his preacher about it but for the fact that every time he got the courage to do so, the sermon that day would include another statement about how people like him were going to hell.
I ...I never knew what to say to him.
I understood that his preacher thought he was saying the right things according to the Bible. But I also knew that to Aaron it would sound like inevitable condemnation.
I'm not like Aaron. I've always felt an attraction to guys. It was somewhat different but it was always there. I reasoned, "How can God create a man who chooses Him and chooses life, and yet is so trapped in his own skin that will eventually send him away from God's plan?" "Does God create a man just to watch him burn!??" And this was a puzzle in my mind...a puzzle that came rushing back to me after reading this portion of Romans.
Another post to finish up this lengthy explanation of my decision making process coming up (soon!)
But I want to wait...And I want to hear a little more feedback about these last few posts. I KNOW it's a very VERY touchy issue with many of you on opposing sides of each other. But please a little "chatter" would be appreciated.
Another Thankyou for reading. =]
1 corinthians 6:
ReplyDelete9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
2 Corinthians
ReplyDeleteTherefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Just because a new creature does that mean you are with out any temptation of the past or of the future.
James
13When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. 15Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
temptation is not a sin. what you do with it is. Look at the list in 1 Corinthians
Sexually immoral(Porn, Movies, TV, Billboards,... anything that makes you think of sex out side of a marriage relationship)
Idolaters(Anyone that puts something in front of God in there life. Money, friends, things, wife, kids,...)
Male prostitutes(Sexually immoral)
Homosexual offenders (sexually immoral)
Thieves(taking anything that doesn't belong to you. you could take this a long way from big crimes to stealing form work by half heartedly working at you job that you get payed by the hour and you really are not working a hour of work.)
Greedy(same as idolaters putting something in front of God just because you want it)
Drunkards(some one that is drunk)
Slanderers(a gossip, did you hear what Sally said...)
Swindlers ( to cheat (a person, business, etc.) out of money or other assets.)
Is there anything one that really if they looked at them self doesn't have a problem in one or more of these areas. But we are not Justified by our actions we are Justified by one thing Jesus Christ and what he did on the cross and raising in victory.
Some people are tempted by lust for other women other then there wife ,some by food ,some by drink, some by gossip,... but are you any of those things and do you let your self be controlled by them. Or are you controlled by God's love and grace. God does give us two promises
1 Corinthians:
No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.
2 Corinthians:
But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me
I like the above posted comment. I'll only add that we can not attain any kind of holy living on our own. However, that doesn't mean we just stop trying. And its not trying for holiness' sake. I try to live the way the Bible teaches for ONE REASON only. Its because I love and adore Jesus Christ. My desires are second to his. My life is his. My affections are his. Add that to the above notes and I'm good :)
ReplyDeleteThanks for your consideration of this story. Obviously you both have put alot of thought and study into it.
ReplyDeleteI find the biggest difficulty in relating these words from the Bible about temptation and sin to "homosexuality" or the like is that it somehow becomes us. Or in other words the individual's identity is attached to it.
As for myself, I spoke of my uncertainty of my gender and this came before the attration to the same sex.
I'm not disagreeing with the previous comments
but I think those outside the box tend to overlook these important and very personal issues going on inside. For some it is as you say...sexual lust and is easy to see it that way, but still for others it becomes who they are. And to imply that "who they are" is a temptation and/or is evil and sinful is obviously contrary to what scripture says.
Again very good comments here. I have yet to hear any from someone who believes another way than this popular Biblical view.
I would love to hear from you.. I know that there are other viewpoints out there. I'm not asking to start a argument. I think it is important for everyones voice to be heard.
Wisdom comes from understanding and understanding comes from a heart that listens. I'm ready to listen to you. =]
You point out that homosexuality becomes part of someones identity..."it's just the way I am". I think that is one of the enemies most favorite lies...that we are one with our sin, whatever it is. And I think that in this particular situation, it is especially sad. I don't know if you've noticed this trend, but so far, every friend or acquaintance I have who questions their gender or sexuality, eventually I've found out that they were abused either physically or sexually at a young age. There are a few friends whose history I don't know, but I've heard enough to wonder about their pasts. This, in my mind, is why that lie of "just the way I am" is so sad...because a symptom is a clue that something deeper is hurt inside of us. We don't want to treat symptoms, we want to treat that actual hurt. So, if we decide that something that very well may be a symptom of something much much deeper is actually normal and healthy, like having five fingers and toes on each hand or foot, how will that deep hurt ever be addressed? I agree, I don't really know how to address either issue. Because you are right, how do you tell someone that something they consider part of themselves is wrong? I don't know. I just know that I love people anyway as best I can, and if I'm given a glimpse into that secret pain, I try my best to be a conduit for God's love. Sorry, this is rambly and not real coherent!
ReplyDelete